In case anyone stumbles on this, I'm adding a note to say that the Barbarian reading group has run its course. It could pick up again in the future, but for now it's over. It was a good run and very helpful to discuss these weighty topics.
To all, God bless...
Monday, July 19, 2010
Wednesday, May 26, 2010
Chapter 9 redux...
Some additional discussion questions for chapter 9 of "The Jesus of Suburbia":
1) What negative aspects of the current culture has the church surrendered to? Where have I given in? (p 154)
2) Which of the groups from Jesus's time do I most closely align with, Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, or Zealots? (p 155-156)
3) Page 157 says that "redemption occurs when something that previously had no value is made valuable". Ironically, the Evil One specializes in the opposite. He likes to take things of value and make them useless or worse. Can you think of some examples of each?
4) What do you think of Erre's feminist discussion on pages 161-162? Can you think of any other issues that the church has abdicated but about which Jesus cares a great deal?
5) This chapter talks a great deal about where truth is found. Can you think of truths that are God's even though they have become identified with other faiths?
6) Although we covered this briefly on Sunday, I think it deserves greater thought. When is it valid or not to slap the "Christian" label on something? Can anything but a human being be considered Christian? What does it mean for an organization, a book, a song, or anything else to be called Christian?
7) Brainstorm some examples of truths that are found in "non-Christian" sources as the author does on the bottom of page 168. It's a good discipline to always be discerning of messages found in songs, movies, commercials, or wherever, even if they are considered Christian.
8) At the very bottom of page 169, it says that the early church council determined that "the church should not make it difficult for those who do not know God to come to him." Are there any ways that the 21st century western church has pulled back from that stance? How have we made it difficult for people to come to Christ "just as they are"?
9) At the top of 171, Erre claims that the boundaries of God are more expansive than ours. If that's true - and I believe it is - why would we do so?
10) Consider the non-negotiables - the "center", if you will - of your faith. Are your boundaries broader or narrower than God's? Which of your beliefs, if challenged, would rock your faith?
Feel free to add your thoughts to the comments section of this post, below.
1) What negative aspects of the current culture has the church surrendered to? Where have I given in? (p 154)
2) Which of the groups from Jesus's time do I most closely align with, Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, or Zealots? (p 155-156)
3) Page 157 says that "redemption occurs when something that previously had no value is made valuable". Ironically, the Evil One specializes in the opposite. He likes to take things of value and make them useless or worse. Can you think of some examples of each?
4) What do you think of Erre's feminist discussion on pages 161-162? Can you think of any other issues that the church has abdicated but about which Jesus cares a great deal?
5) This chapter talks a great deal about where truth is found. Can you think of truths that are God's even though they have become identified with other faiths?
6) Although we covered this briefly on Sunday, I think it deserves greater thought. When is it valid or not to slap the "Christian" label on something? Can anything but a human being be considered Christian? What does it mean for an organization, a book, a song, or anything else to be called Christian?
7) Brainstorm some examples of truths that are found in "non-Christian" sources as the author does on the bottom of page 168. It's a good discipline to always be discerning of messages found in songs, movies, commercials, or wherever, even if they are considered Christian.
8) At the very bottom of page 169, it says that the early church council determined that "the church should not make it difficult for those who do not know God to come to him." Are there any ways that the 21st century western church has pulled back from that stance? How have we made it difficult for people to come to Christ "just as they are"?
9) At the top of 171, Erre claims that the boundaries of God are more expansive than ours. If that's true - and I believe it is - why would we do so?
10) Consider the non-negotiables - the "center", if you will - of your faith. Are your boundaries broader or narrower than God's? Which of your beliefs, if challenged, would rock your faith?
Feel free to add your thoughts to the comments section of this post, below.
Tuesday, April 21, 2009
As of 4/19, after taking a week off, we've begun looking at Francis Chan's "Crazy Love". We've only covered the Preface so far, but are starting to get nervous already. How barbaric are we willing to get?
During this meeting, we discussed a possible response to the current economic crisis. We'll see what comes of it...
During this meeting, we discussed a possible response to the current economic crisis. We'll see what comes of it...
Tuesday, March 24, 2009
At our last meeting, 3/22/09, we ran out of time after covering only about two pages of the nearly 20 page chapter, "Integrity and Self-Acceptance". For that reason - and the fact the several people were missing - I thought I'd dump my thoughts and questions here for any who want to look at them. My notes are listed by page.
P104: According to Manning, "We each have a dream, a vision of life that corresponds to our convictions...". Have you ever considered what yours is? What drives you, informs your decision-making process, sets you apart? Manning says that, "The dream of Jesus Christ is the Kingdom of God." Does that align with yours? Should it?
P105: Blondel is quoted: "If you want to know what a person really believes, don't listen to what he says but watch what he does." If someone were to watch you day in and day out, what belief system would they be able to infer?
P106: A long discussion about emotions begins here. It is true that the evangelical movement has generally disparaged emotions. (q.v. "Emotions - Can You Trust Them?") They are generally disregarded as unreliable and misleading. Yet they are eminently reliable; they are a perfect barometer of how you feel! To deny how you feel is to deny part of you. Now those feelings should not always be followed, but they should be dealt with one way or another. What do you do with your feelings?
Manning goes into some depth about how Jesus expressed and responded to his feelings. Did that discussion ring true for you or make you feel uncomfortable?
On the other hand, the world has suffered a great deal at the hands of people who followed their feelings without regard to their effects on others. Where is the balance? (Fortunately, we have the Scriptures as our filter.)
P109: For Jesus, Manning claims, "to have integrity meant to be genuine, to communicate authentically, to resonate with his feelings." My reaction to this was to reflect on Sunday mornings. I simply don't see this kind of authenticity at church. More often, I see facades of happiness and even perfection. Just as Sunday church service has been regarded (rightly, I'd say) as the most segregated hour of the week, it also seems to be the phoniest. (I'm sure Brennan has a much more byzantine word for phony, but it's the best I could do. :-)
P112: In view of Manning's assertion that "The way of integrity ... does call each disciple to rigorous honesty about attitudes, values, lifestyle and personal relationships", how do you react to his claim "that dishonesty and self-deception have become an accepted way of life"? How have we been dishonest with ourselves? With others?
I also love Jung's statement that "neurosis is always an adequate substitute for suffering."
P113: We discussed this point in class, but it bears repeating here, I believe. Manning has a discipline where he pauses each hour to "examine whether or not the thoughts, words, and deeds of the previous sixty minutes" align with his desire to be considered a "loving man".
We brainstormed what other disciplines we might practice, even temporarily, to improve the way we conduct ourselves. Some that came up are:
P115: Most of this page consists of a single quote from a Franciscan priest. It's too long to repeat here, but it's worth reflecting on. In short, can you imagine that Jesus feels proud of you? I struggled a bit with this. What do you think?
P116: There are a list of "uncomfortable questions" posed here. I'll reproduce them for your consideration:
P117-118: The paragraph about risk that straddles these two pages is particularly pertinent to our desire to be barbarians. I commend it to your attention.
P118: At the bottom of the page, Kathleen Kelly is quoted as saying, "For Jesus it was more vital to be an honest, genuine human being than a model Jew."
I paraphrased this for my own purposes, to see how I measure up: "For Rick, is it more vital to be an honest, genuine human being than a model [Christian/evangelical/American/father/husband/worker/whatever]?" I'm still thinking about that one...
That's all I have for now, though there was still lots more that could be discussed. Feel free to add any comments you have regarding my thoughts or your own reading of the chapter. Or feel free to skip it. I won't be hurt... much. :-)
The final meeting for this book will be 3/29/09. Howard will lead since I will be in Haiti. (Seems backward, doesn't it?)
I've already settled on the next book for our series: I'm thinking of "Crazy Love" by Francis Chan. It's barbaric in a different way. And the vocabulary is considerably simpler. :-)
God bless you all...
P104: According to Manning, "We each have a dream, a vision of life that corresponds to our convictions...". Have you ever considered what yours is? What drives you, informs your decision-making process, sets you apart? Manning says that, "The dream of Jesus Christ is the Kingdom of God." Does that align with yours? Should it?
P105: Blondel is quoted: "If you want to know what a person really believes, don't listen to what he says but watch what he does." If someone were to watch you day in and day out, what belief system would they be able to infer?
P106: A long discussion about emotions begins here. It is true that the evangelical movement has generally disparaged emotions. (q.v. "Emotions - Can You Trust Them?") They are generally disregarded as unreliable and misleading. Yet they are eminently reliable; they are a perfect barometer of how you feel! To deny how you feel is to deny part of you. Now those feelings should not always be followed, but they should be dealt with one way or another. What do you do with your feelings?
Manning goes into some depth about how Jesus expressed and responded to his feelings. Did that discussion ring true for you or make you feel uncomfortable?
On the other hand, the world has suffered a great deal at the hands of people who followed their feelings without regard to their effects on others. Where is the balance? (Fortunately, we have the Scriptures as our filter.)
P109: For Jesus, Manning claims, "to have integrity meant to be genuine, to communicate authentically, to resonate with his feelings." My reaction to this was to reflect on Sunday mornings. I simply don't see this kind of authenticity at church. More often, I see facades of happiness and even perfection. Just as Sunday church service has been regarded (rightly, I'd say) as the most segregated hour of the week, it also seems to be the phoniest. (I'm sure Brennan has a much more byzantine word for phony, but it's the best I could do. :-)
P112: In view of Manning's assertion that "The way of integrity ... does call each disciple to rigorous honesty about attitudes, values, lifestyle and personal relationships", how do you react to his claim "that dishonesty and self-deception have become an accepted way of life"? How have we been dishonest with ourselves? With others?
I also love Jung's statement that "neurosis is always an adequate substitute for suffering."
P113: We discussed this point in class, but it bears repeating here, I believe. Manning has a discipline where he pauses each hour to "examine whether or not the thoughts, words, and deeds of the previous sixty minutes" align with his desire to be considered a "loving man".
We brainstormed what other disciplines we might practice, even temporarily, to improve the way we conduct ourselves. Some that came up are:
- Go an entire day without saying anything negative.
- For each criticism, dole out seven (or so) compliments.
- Attempt to not correct/improve/criticize/instruct anyone for a certain period of time.
P115: Most of this page consists of a single quote from a Franciscan priest. It's too long to repeat here, but it's worth reflecting on. In short, can you imagine that Jesus feels proud of you? I struggled a bit with this. What do you think?
P116: There are a list of "uncomfortable questions" posed here. I'll reproduce them for your consideration:
- Am I free? If not, why not?
- What is not working in my life?
- What am I afraid of losing?
- What is robbing me of inner peace?
- What attitude, behavior pattern, or disordered relationship is making me frightened of the face in the mirror?
- Do I have the courage to change the things I can?
P117-118: The paragraph about risk that straddles these two pages is particularly pertinent to our desire to be barbarians. I commend it to your attention.
P118: At the bottom of the page, Kathleen Kelly is quoted as saying, "For Jesus it was more vital to be an honest, genuine human being than a model Jew."
I paraphrased this for my own purposes, to see how I measure up: "For Rick, is it more vital to be an honest, genuine human being than a model [Christian/evangelical/American/father/husband/worker/whatever]?" I'm still thinking about that one...
That's all I have for now, though there was still lots more that could be discussed. Feel free to add any comments you have regarding my thoughts or your own reading of the chapter. Or feel free to skip it. I won't be hurt... much. :-)
The final meeting for this book will be 3/29/09. Howard will lead since I will be in Haiti. (Seems backward, doesn't it?)
I've already settled on the next book for our series: I'm thinking of "Crazy Love" by Francis Chan. It's barbaric in a different way. And the vocabulary is considerably simpler. :-)
God bless you all...
Thursday, March 5, 2009
Meal-sharing, continued
I've been going through the references on the bookmarks that Rob has been distributing as part of his "Alive" series. This week's subject is "Outreach". Yesterday and today were verses from Acts, 1:1-8 and 2:42-47, respectively. One thing that stuck out was the repeated references to eating.
The obvious ones for us are in the Acts 2 verses. In v42, "breaking of bread" (i.e. eating) is right up there with teaching, fellowship, and - interestingly before - prayer as activities to which the people devoted themselves.
It comes up again in v46 as an indicator of the health, vitality and attraction of the early church. This time it says they were daily in each others' homes "breaking bread" (i.e. eating) and "partaking of food" (RSV, i.e. eating).
Is it just me, or is there a theme here?
The other reference in 1:4 is not about the early church, but about Jesus Himself. He gave His charge to wait for the Holy Spirit while eating (i.e. eating) with his disciples. That's right, Jesus was into this meal-sharing thing, too!
I wonder if there's something here we can learn for ourselves?
The obvious ones for us are in the Acts 2 verses. In v42, "breaking of bread" (i.e. eating) is right up there with teaching, fellowship, and - interestingly before - prayer as activities to which the people devoted themselves.
It comes up again in v46 as an indicator of the health, vitality and attraction of the early church. This time it says they were daily in each others' homes "breaking bread" (i.e. eating) and "partaking of food" (RSV, i.e. eating).
Is it just me, or is there a theme here?
The other reference in 1:4 is not about the early church, but about Jesus Himself. He gave His charge to wait for the Holy Spirit while eating (i.e. eating) with his disciples. That's right, Jesus was into this meal-sharing thing, too!
I wonder if there's something here we can learn for ourselves?
Monday, March 2, 2009
This past week, we covered chapter 3: "Healing Through Meal Sharing". Although it is the shortest chapter in the book, in typical barbaric fashion we didn't nearly cover it all. If there are things people still want to dicuss, perhaps we can do so here. Or if you'd like to continue the discussion this coming week, let me know. Otherwise, we will move on to chapter 4: "Deliverance Through Storytelling", a subject near and dear to my heart.
Introduction: Why Barbarians?
Welcome to the GCC Barbarian Book Group blog! This will be a place where we can ask each other questions, make announcements and whatever.
The name of this group comes from the first book we discussed: "The Barbarian Way" by Erwin Raphael McManus. We aim to be barbaric with respect to what society expects of us, how the Western church wants to define us and what the popular culture tries to mold us into. Our desire is to let none of this get in the way of our dedication to Jesus and our ability to follow Him.
Our current book is "A Glimpse of Jesus: The Stranger to Self-Hatred" by Brennan Manning. Our unofficial class mascot is Martin Van Buren... for no particular reason. :-)
The name of this group comes from the first book we discussed: "The Barbarian Way" by Erwin Raphael McManus. We aim to be barbaric with respect to what society expects of us, how the Western church wants to define us and what the popular culture tries to mold us into. Our desire is to let none of this get in the way of our dedication to Jesus and our ability to follow Him.
Our current book is "A Glimpse of Jesus: The Stranger to Self-Hatred" by Brennan Manning. Our unofficial class mascot is Martin Van Buren... for no particular reason. :-)
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